Showing posts with label WonderCon. Show all posts
Showing posts with label WonderCon. Show all posts

Thursday, April 17, 2014

Yes, we ARE at Wondercon/Anaheim…and the Crowdfunder Meetup, too


 
Blame it on…well, me: A miscue about calendar dates led me to think I was doomed to miss WonderCon 2014, and so ignored submitting panel ideas this year. Too late, I realized my April indeed had room for all … but too late: So, I'll be missing out having a Trekland audience there for the first time since 2011. 

Still, never fear: you can still come have a set-to with me as I have a mini-table spot at the big New Starship/Enterprise-D Bridge Restoration area at Booth 1253, the non-profit whose board I sit on—and is about to expand in scope. Come get your photo op again this year at the large booth island, with a very different surprise background set-up this year—free again!—and Huston Huddleston there by Saturday afternoon, after a split weekend at Salt Lake City Comic-Con ..... AND while there check out what Trekland goodies I have on hand: maps, books, photos. Fellow boardmember Rick Sternbach will be tabling next to me there, too.

Meanwhile, here's a couple of WC Trekland sidebars: my buddy E.J. de la Pena has an exhibit for his DEFIANCE movie at Booth 1227 … while doctors Drea Letamendi and Ali Mattu, who led the Trek v. SWars Psychology panel I sat on last year (left), have the third incarnation with Chase Masterson on the Trek side this time—at 7:30-8:30 p.m. Saturday in Room 213.

 
In fact, I'll be there to support them in the crowd, and afterward will be happy to Pied Piper the Trek folk over to the adjacent Sheraton Anaheim for our next Con of Wrath crowdfunder meetup "Dr. Trek" Show ...roughed-out in the back of the huge main lobby near the shoeshine stand (where we gatehred last year, as at right). Here's the Facebook Event page—"Join" it if you can, or just tell me table-side... or come by.

And please share: We need to get the word out for Saturday night!

(Next stop: A new landing, in Detroit)



Sunday, April 6, 2014

Away MIssion Tampa, and beyond!: The Dr. Trek spring con tour is about to ROLL


UPDATED with Tampa times/details!

Whoa! It's Away Mission Tampa time this weekend, and I am so looking forward to hitting the I-4 corridor again!  And seeing all our newfound friends from the state I've been to five times since my first visit in only just 2011.

Never been to Tampa, but Javier and the team that had me out for their 2011 show in Orlando have another great one lined up here—and what a line-up... including Leonard Nimoy back at a con, even if via Skype.

I'll be busy! Amidst the other great guests, here's my line-up:

—FRIDAY:
7:30 pm/Main: Bigscreen showing of a Star Trek Continues episode—audience choice!—with my live commentary/Q&A.

—SATURDAY:
11 a.m./Main: Our 2014 edition of the Trekland "Between the Cracks" show
6:30 pm --Cocktail mixer!

7:30-9:30 pm/Green Room (Parlor 112):  Our live crowdfunder-meetup for The Con of Wrath, of course, with the Dr. Trek Show


Thanks to the con—we'll be doing our crowdfunder meetup for "The Con of Wrath" that I do whenever I guest ...  IN the convention space, the comfy con Green Room! Save back your $20 and get in on the rarity and hilarity of trivia, prizes, rare clips, sneak peeks and tipsy storytelling ... while you help support my doc and preserve a piece of Trek history.

—SUNDAY:
2 pm/Panel Room: My "State of the Trek" fan forum, starring you. Come prepared to spout off!


Hey, I'll also have some Trekland Trunk items for the charity auction ... plus, for table-time I'll also have a limited few copies of Star Trek: Stellar Cartography... a couple of very rare black-cover TNG Companions... and remastered-archive Trek creators' original voices on "Trekland: On Speaker Vol. 2" CDs...and my newer photos.


And then—no rest for the weary! This three-week road trip moves on, with something old, something new...and here's the skinny:

WONDERCON Anaheim April 18-20, where you can find me tabling at the "New Starship" booth area, this year sporting an Enterprise-D Transporter Room for photo ops while the bridge pieces are at Salt Lake City Comicon. No panels for me, so come by the table and say hi...pick up some goodies... snap pics, see who else comes by—you never know!)

And then we'll have another Wrath crowdfunder-meetup Saturday night at the rear of the Sheraton Lobby again, peeps !

MIDWEST MEDIA EXPO in Detroit April 25-27: Boldy going where I've never gone before, i.e. north of Indy or Lincoln (as O'Hare Chicago layovers don't count) and I can't WAIT to see the country here AND the fandom at what is a very atypical con. I'll be with fellow STC'ers Vic MIgnogna, Todd Haberkorn, and Chris Doohan... and some of our STCcrew will bop over as well, and old freinds of teh local USS Intrepid group. I'll be doing my panel lineup AND a Wrath meetup there as well—stay tuned.


So, Tampa, Anaheim, and Detroit—followed by:
—Wagnerian FedCon Germany  May 29-June 1, after 10 years away....
—then huge Phoenix Comicon June 6-8,   
—BayouCon June 20-22 in Lake Charles, LA
—good ol' SoonerCon back home in OKC June 27-29.

And that barely gets us to Comic-Con San Diego and then the LA2Vegas Trek Tour and of course Vegas Trek in late July/early August. Whew.

But come help me survive April now... June later... and I'll promise you a good time.

(Except in the Northeast. They have to get me there, first!)







Tuesday, April 23, 2013

Is it psych or is it Trek-v-Wars? Our WonderCon panel is online!


Before we get any further from that WonderCon weekend...

I want to make sure all our Trekland friends got to see this fun panel's video (below the fold) that my friend Dr. Andrea Letamendi asked me to be part of a few months back. Joining in on an actual comic-con type panel—you know, with panelists—is still a new thing to me, coming from the arena of the solo show from Trek and media cons.

But Drea wanted me to be involved as the "franchise guy" for Trek, and I met the other panelists that day (at left, with mod Brian Ward of Shout!Factory (center), Robot Chicken writer and Wars guy Hugh Sterbakov (right), and Drs. Drea and Ali Mattu).  It was amazing I made it in time with Friday LA freeway traffic snarls ...and this vid, recorded by Ali's front-row friend Lowen Baumgarten, shows me to all the world sneaking in as I barely make the opening intros, before I'd even got by to get a badge (how did WC even let me in?)

Seriously, Drea and Ali had a great plan of getting across some serious behavioral points and even concepts for storytelling, within the fun of the moment. But I came away from that hour at first feeling like it got caught somewhere between her pitch and the later trash-talk smackdown format it turned into—and I was concerned it came off as a mishmash.

But never fear—this is Trek and Wars. We had to run off as it ended, but random folks kept stopping to tell me all weekend in Anaheim that they loved the panel ... and now this video shows people were indeed having a good time. The fact that the Trek folk were outnumbered 2-1 and yet actually edged in the "winner vote" at the end tells the tale as well. (We did, actually, as this actual Yahoo News story seems to point out). Maybe that's the old bit of the Wars folk showing up "armed for bear" and the IDIC Trek gang just rolling their eyes at all of it, "Really?" It was also fun correcting or detailing even a few innocent misconceptions by our Wars brethren about Trek, which I think the audience appreciated—especially regarding any monolithic Trek reaction to artificial intelligence, whether android, robotic or (my inclusion) holographic.

Doubly fun was getting in a zinger that not only barbed the Wars crowd (since we had to go there), but also the old Shatner/SNL "Get a life!" wrongful Trek stereotype as well. (Thanks, reporter Eric, for getting that in.) In fact, Drea's title got a lot of mainstream media play before and after; driving down, it was one of just two KNX radio news highlights of the WC day mentioned.

But I had a blast meeting Dr. Ali from NYU and Hugh, albeit oh so briefly, as well as working with Drea and Brian. The SDCC gods willing, we might even revisit nurture-v-nature and all the rest at San Diego—so if you happen to make it down in July, take a look for us.




AND the right side of our house, with Lowell in full hand-held mode:

Saturday, April 6, 2013

WonderCon look-back: A Bones-Sulu reunion AND a hit panel on video

What a difference a year makes.

A year ago we were drowning in a monsoon that ruined the mood at what I called "strip mall con"—the normally San-Fran-based Wondercon, San Diego's little brother relocated to Anaheim for a year or two and struggling then to share parking with two high school sports events at the convention center there. Meh. People were drenched waiting in open air for slow, overwhelmed and distant shuttle buses.

This year? Wow, and not just for the very welcome sun:

FIRST, I pull off a successful meet-up for "The Con of Wrath" (more on that soon)...

... AND enjoy the largesse of some table space at the hubbub of Enterprise-D chair photo opps thanks to Huston Huddleston (rear, left) and his booming non-profit restoration project and science center "New Starship"....

...WHERE we had a McCoy-Sulu reunion with Grant Imahara of Mythbusters (left and right), soon to be seen as the helmsman opposite my doctor in the new Star Trek Continues indie online series—the pilot episode to debut at PhoenixComicon May 24 (more on THAT later, too!) ...

...PLUS have a wealth of Treklanders drop by: longtime Trek illustrator-author (and Voyager designer ) Rick Sternbach and Voyager illustrator Tim Earls .,.. PLUS post-production producer Steve Welke, all of whom recorded vidchats with me for the blog for later: look for them soon.

Rick...
...Tim...
...and Steve!


PLUS a genre psychology panel I was asked to join that garnered a lot of news attention, recorded on homespun video for posterity (with a cool opening sequence)—and more on THAT later as well.

We even worked!—and got in an interview on the run with one of the dealers who was a pivotal key in the saving of "The Con of Wrath," our documentary on the 1982 Ultimate Fantasy show in Houston that was Stat Trek's most glorious failure. You "Wrath" supporters will hear more about that as well.

I also made it over to the CBS Blu-ray Remastering panel, for the great clips and reaction from another full house (at left) to the Okudas, producer Roger Lay, doc director Robert Burnett and even Brannon the Braga back on his outreach effort. I was sad to hear., though, the offhand news that longtime TV Trek set decorator Jimmy Mees had just passed away. (More on him soon, as well.)

All in all, from my admittedly narrow point-of-view on 2 of the 3 days the weekend, my two days at WonderCon WERE a wonder—a good mix of fans, coming from all across the genre spectrum of course, even as the Trek variety tended to find me—and in surprisingly and healthy numbers, judging by both the panels and the obvious cosplay. I really, really was amazed at the contrast between last year and this—both in numbers and in Trek repping. It was a good year for the show in deed, where I heard totals jumped up from around 40,000 last year to 50,000 this time. With the entire convention center uncontested by high school cheerleaders and girls volleyball championships—confusing the anime fans boys with cosplay photo meltdown—things overall seemed more settled, and folks having a more leisurely and settled time.

I still miss, however, the lack of anywhere to go NOT associated with the nearby hotels—as helpful as they are, overflow choices are still limited. With Anaheim set up to fuel Disney full-time or to host events whose members hit Disney for the night... there's just no mom-and-pop or local nightlife or pubs/eateries in walking distance. And heaven forbid you give up your hard-won, hard-paid parking spot in midday or early evening! Whether WonderCon returns wholly to San Fransisco's Moscone Center, or maintains split campuses now in both OC and the Bay, is among the choices the WC has said it will consider... based on venue vibes like this. Wherever it is held, WonderCon is enjoying the boom of popularity as many regional comic-cons enjoy these days as people shy away—or are forced away from ticket sales shutouts—from megamonstrosity CCSD and its 150,000 bodies in July.

Finally, though—just a big thanks to everyone who came and braved the sunshine this year, and offered up some fun chat or good cosplay, or both:
Ex-Brit Ben Paddon of L.A.'s own TShirt 


Especiale gracias to you guys-n-gals who made it to any or all three of the panels I was a part of, including our "traditional" Saturday evening Trekland "Between the Cracks" show—even if we did have to have it in the "classroom" room, you stuck by. And look for those psych-panel video and donor tribute posts before much more time gets by.

Oh—and you wanna say something about the Hawaiian shirt? Well, GO ahead. Disrespect the uniform.


Thursday, March 28, 2013

LA ALERT: Whoa, WonderCon: Meetup & Trek co-panels in Anaheim


Annnnd this insane month of March—from Seattle to Orlando to our Con of Wrath shoot in OK/NorTex that has depleted my postings!—comes to a close "back home" THIS weekend in Anaheim with WonderConvia not one but three panels, plus a meet-up for the doc, of course! And you're all invited.


WonderCon, sprawling San Diego Comic-Con's little brother, is again back in Anaheim while its normal digs at the Moscone Center in downtown San Francisco are being renovated. As a comic-ccn it covers comics, authros and anime plus games and all things sci-fi/fantasy/horror genre—but Trek increasingly plays a bigger part, you TLers. But by not being quite the behemoth of SDCC, it's not so sold-out and intimidating—and there still are Friday and Sunday one-day passes, all at the Anaheim Convention Center just south of Disneyland.

My buddy and increasingly famous Bridge Saver Huston Huddleston has graciously offered me space in his restoration Enterprise-D bridge chair area, sure to be a high-traffic hit with all the photo posers. So, between panels on Friday and Saturday, we'll have Trekland: On Speaker CDs and fundraiser Klingon PADDs and info all about all stuff Trek Tour and Star Trek Continues for all the SoCal folk who never get where I'm at ...

PLUS I hope you can catch me at any of these panels (or support those linked)—if you use THESE links, you can "signal" you are intend to attend, and join the crowd...

FRIDAY: 1:30 p.m., Room 213

At 1:30 the psychology/fan duo of Dr. Andrea Letamendi (UCLA) and Dr. Ali Mattu (NYU) have slated "The Psychology of Star Trek vs. Star Wars," and I'm on to represent guess-what, along with writer Hugh Sterbakov (Robot Chicken, City Under the Moon). Surely we can all call "IDIC" and just get along, right? Brian Ward of Shout! Factory is along to moderate, to boot. "Join" us early on Facebook?

BONUS FRIDAY PICK! 2:30 p.m., Room 300DE

PLUS, right after that, stay in Trekland for a bonus and head over with me to Room 300DE to experience "Star Trek: Into High Definition" about all the amazing Blu-Ray remastering projects with Brannon Braga, Mike and Denise Okuda, producer Roger Lay and director Robert Meyer Burnett. Enterprise S! is out, with TNG S3 not far behind ...


FRIDAY: 6:30pm, Room 208

Later on, also be on the panel of folks with dreamer Huston and his co-hort Brian Uiga as they update fans on the non-profit "New Starship" Star Trek Enterprise Bridge Restoration and Sci-Fi Museum that has taken fandom and potential marketers by storm since we first helped break the news and vet the source and then had our follow-up.

I actually have to bow out midway through this one so as to conduct a long-delayed interview for THE CON OF WRATH on-site (yes, work!), but after being at Huston's chair/table area all day it won't be a loss.



SATURDAY: 7 p.m., Room 210BCD

After a day of seeing everybody on the floor, we'll close off the panels at 7 p.m. with our annual "Between the Cracks" Trekland show for 2013—with even an angle on that JJ thing right around the corner, plus some looks back at TNG and DS9 and ahead at our Star Trek Continues world premiere May 24 in Phoenix Comicon!


And finally ... for your after-panels, after-buying pleasure while stuck in "strip mall town"...


SATURDAY, 9 p.m., Room TBA adjacent

Somewhere along Friday we'll announce the adjacent site (a fun place with spirits, hopefully) of our first CON OF WRATH Meetup-Fundraiser for Anaheim, running Saturday 9-11 p.m. in the usual format of fun, prize trivia and rare Trek videos and doc sneak peeks that we've done the past year at my live events... like Seattle ... San Diego (right)... Vegas... and many more. If you plan to pop in your $20 and make the party, you could even "Join" the meetup Event page on Facebook, just to give me an idea ...


BONUS SUNDAY PICK: I won't be on-site Sunday, but the usual uspects are back at it with an ALIEN ARMAGEDDON debate panel 3-5 p.m. akin to the infamous Starship Smackdown at SDCC, at 3-5 SUNDAY. Treklanders will especially know Robert Burnett again and Daren Dochterman, Jeff Bond and moderator Mark A. Altman among the herd.

Now, if I ever get caught up with March—I'll tally up how Seattle and Orlando meetups have been, and thank all the folks who turned out and helped there.

From here, though, we thankfully take a breather— and I'll next see you out on the con trail over in El Paso April 26-28!



Wednesday, March 21, 2012

MIdweek catchup: Wet, wacky WonderCon

Small crowd here...but Treklanders FILLED it later.
Despite the torrential rain and the even more horrendous parking horrors of what was Saturday WonderCon in Anaheim, the day was a good one overall in Trekland. And by that I mean it was pretty fan-centric.

But still—it was a bit of surreality even more than usual at a comic-con, with high school girls volleyball and cheerleader tournies each going on in adjacent areas at the center—and taking up all that parking! Officially, overflow was to go to Anaheim Angels' Stadium, miles away for a shuttle route—but that didn't help folks like @starfleetmom and @willymccauley who had to walk from car to shuttle bus stop, and then stand for 20, all in downpours—ie, no bus shelters. The T&T (text and twitter) warnings about parking alone helped make it insane for a lot of my regular posse to attend, including even CON of WRATH DP Neal Hallford who is ALWAYS there at the SoCal cons with me.

Just a thanks here to the 300+ that gave our "classroom" another all-but-SRO turnout as we delved into TNG's roots and some odd facts for the 25th anni year ... and what a great audience. Even the Browncoats on hand displayed their original colors, before brown.   A special thanks to those who signed on the website's news list—yay!—and those took advantage of my flea market, and /or made donations toward CON OF WRATH support.

Sadly, we were shorthanded on posse and I don't have any photos to share, aside from the empty "classroom" I shared on tweet and Facebook  earlier (above). But I do want to thank Christine, Willy, Bill and Conner for help with the signups, sales, and raffle drawing that I did on the fly, since I was not tabling here as we do at Comic-Con San Diego and Seattle's Emerald City. It was also great to meet twitterfan @wetodded, as well as Jullian Lawler from the booming EPCon in El Paso—where it looks like some news may be reported soon. Shhh!

So, all in all—and aside from an untech'ed, mystery DVD player/projector system that read audio but not video output (at 7 p.m. I was the first in the day to use it? Really?)—I can tell we all had a great time. Thanks again for the "hanging on every word" vibe, guys. And the laughs .... not to mention the "ahhhhhh" lines. What an empathetic group!  Seattle, San Diego, and even Vegas will have to go a ways to beat that.  BTW: Once again our informal straw polls show TNG slightly ahead of TOS in fan fave, and DS9 the biggest turnaround in support, much larger overall  than the hands  from those  few who simply "came in with it" as their first viewing.

And—if anyone DID come away with any snaps of me or the crowd, please ... can you share?

Because this is the only other shot I took Saturday ... at 1 a.m. .... across the street, approaching a lone car in the Disney south parking. In the "Wettiest Lot On Earth":

Wednesday, March 14, 2012

STV—LA ALERT! WonderCon is Anthony Mongomery's comic book debut

As if recurring on one hit series isn't enough, Anthony "Travis Mayweather" Montgomery of Enterprise fame is seeing another longtime dream come true this weekend at WonderCon in Anaheim, right across from Disneyland: Hosting the "pre-launch" of his longtime graphic novel concept, MILES AWAY.

In this vidchat we did just last week, Anthony tells you all about the 28-page sample of his teenage superhero, a WonderCon exclusive from Booth 916 —plus he has more news on his controversial Darryl character from VH-1's Single Ladies, and his casting to recur on Jennifer Love Hewitt's new Lifetime series The Client List.

But it's Maxwell Miles and his MILES AWAY book that has Anthony excited right now ... and being a great chat guest as we also tackle the Biz, commuting from Texas, "holding for sound," and all kinds of things in this visit ... and yes, I'll hook up at WonderCon this weekend in my spare time and report back on how it goes. (And, unlike its big brither in San Diego this July, WonderCon still has plenty of tickets available):

So, what should I ask Anthony when we meet up at his WonderCon booth? Comment below!

Saturday, March 3, 2012

My 2012 con season starts in THIS MONTH*

Whoa—it's a busy March for me, if you want to come out and have a good ol' con meetup. Maybe it's all West Coast right now, but we'll make our way around.

In just two weeks I'll be at  WonderCon, this year down in Anaheim (instead of SanFran)—with a coveted panel slot featuring my "Between the Cracks" show at 7 pm Saturday night in Room 210. Hope to have some new sneak peeks from "The Con of Wrath" and goodies from this year's Trek anniversaries, as well as the usual TREKLAND rarities and jollies.

Hey, you can even check in here for that slot, and warn me you're coming! No table for an HQ this weekend, so follow me on Twitter at @larrynemecek and we may post a Twek Tweetup.

Later this month, March 30-April 1—no foolin', can it be my third straight year to bring TREKLAND to Seattle's Emerald City Comic-Con? We have some new plans afoot there, but most of all you can know that we're looking for all the Trekfan wide-awakes at Sunday noon in Room 4C1-2 for one of my forum panels, "Star Trek: The State of the Franchise"... "forum" meaning, we hear from YOU. So come with the hangover doused, the sleep out of your eyes, and awake enough to soak up what your fellow fans (and me, perhaps) have to say.

As always, the panel interactions are mass cool, but it's the table time where we can chat. And who knows? You might even find a goodie or too.

BEST OF ALL—if you are a far-flung Survivor of The Con of Wrath, I want to meet you! Yeah, you know who you are.

That's March, but it goes for all year—because looking down the line for the rest of 2012, so far—as is up at my website calendar—I know I'll be on hand with programming slots, hosting and/or table time ... maybe even some special events ... at several cons.

There are a couple more cons for me in the talking stage, but as usual the East is just naturally under-represented. If you have a line to any cons or shows in that time zone, tell 'em my e-door is always open... and the Between the Cracks sideshow can ramp up and even tailor topics for anyone, anywhere.

But for now, post-March we can have some real Trekland reunions and stuff at these fine fests:


APRIL 13-15
CyPhaCon 
Lake Charles, LA

JUNE 15-17

SoonerCon 21
Oklahoma City, OK —my old-home homies!

JUNE 30-JULY 1

BayouCon IV
Lake Charles, LA

JULY 12-15

Comic-Con Intl.
San Diego, CA

AUG. 4-15

Hollywood to Vegas: Trek Film Sites with Larry Nemecek
Geek Nation Tours
Los Angeles/Lone Pine, CA to Las Vegas, NV

AUG. 11-14

Creation Official Star Trek Con 
Las Vegas, NV

NOV. 23-25, 2012

Starbase Indy
Indianapolis, IN

Just stay tuned!




*Not counting Gallifrey One last month, which you totally SHOULD ...

Wednesday, March 31, 2010

WonderCon bound!



So who's in San Francisco this weekend for WonderCon?

I've never been there, much less for doing a show ... so thanks to Daryl Frazetti once again for dragging me along.

Come on by: It's a tough time slot, but help me hold up the honor of Trekland at 6-7 p.m. Saturday in Rooms 220-224 and I promise you—we'll have a blast. It's my ever-evolving digi-slideshow... now, finally, with the somewhat cool name "Star Trek: Between the Cracks." And afterwards you can ask me anything. Well, almost.

This show has a tough 24/7 table policy, great for actors but not keen for indie authors outside of an exhibitor table. So, catch me after the show, at 7-ish. I'll have some cool stuff from my resume, and for sale.

Monday, March 2, 2009

Cool con news—and one more change

Five or six years ago, Comic-Con San Diego was almost totally off the Star Trek radar, as was its New York cousin. Even a couple years ago, the "mid-year" WonderCon in the Bay Area by the same folks was much the same: whaaaat?

All that is changed now. The drip-drip-drip news of details and the packed audiences for JJ Abrams' movie advance vanguard at WonderCon last weekend is merely the crest of the overall Hollywood tidal wave that now crashes into these multi-genre conventions and threatens to send their attendance numbers to flood stage. Especially at Comic-Con, where both hotel rooms and panel seating is as scarce as an albino Orion.

What of the traditional fan cons, especially the Star Trek variety, fan and pro? It's obvious that JJ's team comes from the current TV-movie crop of producers who have risen to the heights knowing chiefly the last decade's bi-coastal Comic-Cons— and now WonderCon—as a great way to reach the hard-core faithful and make a big media splash at the same time. The genre, online and geek press, plus the "fringe" of mainstream media, have grown well-equipped to be familiar with those venues and their across-the-board star power moreso than traditional fan cons. (And yes, I know full well that the Comic-Cons and WonderCon sprang full-bore as fan cons and technically still are ... and Atlanta's Dragon*Con is not far behind. It's the obvious beacon to reach the Southern audience. with skyrocketing and crammed attendance numbers of its own.)

For a lot of people, this is not your father's fandom, much less franchise. And the ripple effects are still shaking out, for good and bad. Are we in a transition time for fandom —online geeks versus their elders, a potential two-track population—as much as for the Twitterati versus those still just happy to be emailing in our overall culture?

Comments, anyone?
Stay tuned in any case—and more here on that ripple effect, later ...